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Judicator Saturnius
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Posted - 2011.04.17 19:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Judicator Saturnius on 17/04/2011 19:40:38
 Originally by: Terianna Eri
ECCM IS NOT USEFUL WHEN YOUR OPPONENTS HAVE NO ECM
ECCM can be used to make your ship(s) difficult or impossible to scan out, so it doesn't do -literally- nothing in the absence of ECM. In-fact for some (see BURN EDEN's unscannable sniper shenanigans - very funny to watch and highly effective) this perk is very valuable.
Would I coun't this more useful than cap boosting or scrams? Probably not. But, you might want to do some fact-checking before you fly off the handle with bold text again.
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Judicator Saturnius
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Posted - 2011.04.17 20:26:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Cephelange du'Krevviq
Her primary point about the ECM is that its counter, ECCM serves no other purpose if there's no hostile ECM present.
Didn't I -just- dispute that?
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Judicator Saturnius
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Posted - 2011.04.17 21:57:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Judicator Saturnius on 17/04/2011 22:03:13
Edited by: Judicator Saturnius on 17/04/2011 22:02:42
Originally by: Cephelange du'Krevviq
Originally by: Judicator Saturnius
Originally by: Cephelange du'Krevviq
Her primary point about the ECM is that its counter, ECCM serves no other purpose if there's no hostile ECM present.
Didn't I -just- dispute that?
You know, these discussions would go a lot better if people would work on their reading comprehension. I was neither agreeing with nor disagreeing with her points. I was highlighting them for the previous poster; the one I quoted. Jiminy Crickets, some people's kids...
You were repeating an argument that had JUST been proven demonstrably false. If you're ok with that kind of debate you're really just trolling and not discussing anything.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Judicator Saturnius
ECCM can be used ...
It is such an infinitely narrow niche that it hardly 'counts' as a feature of ECCM.
Furthermore, the amount of ECCM one has to use to achieve that effect more than cripples the setup entirely except in the case of T3 cruisers ..
Firstly, I adressed the issue that it is a niche feature. I pointed out the fact it is certainly not as useful as cap boosting or sebos in secondary effect. However; I have to say it clearly does not cripple anyting except T3's. Check the BE team's raven setups for example. They are certainly not crippled.
Again, I'm not making the case that eccm are infinitely useful or on part in secondary effect with other anti-ewar modules, BUT you and the previous posted I quoted are making hyperbolic statements when you claim they're either completely useless or have absolutely no pvp niche at all.
I won't weigh in on the true 'balance' behind ecm platforms. I have simply pointed out the holes in your arguments.
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Judicator Saturnius
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Posted - 2011.04.17 22:32:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cephelange du'Krevviq
I will dispute you proved anything demonstrably false. No one in this thread has, except that civil discussion/debate is pretty much impossible in gaming forums.
?? Did you not click on the link in my post? It clearly shows the mechanics behind using ECCM to reduce your scannable signature.
That most certainly proves her statement false.
If I told you there was absolutely nothing inside of a box, nothing at all, and you opened it up and pointed out there was indeed a pencil inside, you would have just proven my statement demonstrably false. We could debate the usefulness of the pencil, but I would not be able to prove the box empty because it was not.
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Judicator Saturnius
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Posted - 2011.04.18 00:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tiffany Starr
ECM should have diminishing returns, maybe as little as 5% reduced strength per successful cycle to discourage perma-jamming.
It's kind of ridiculous that I can perma-jam a T2 Thrasher with an 8-day old plexing alt, then spend the next ten minutes slowly whittling him down with 20dps...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13000247
Combination of luck + matar ships having low sensor strength. Certainly not a definitive example of ship balance. There are plenty of lolmails out ther where grifs/bb's/faclons/rooks somehow perma-jam their target to death with damn lucky rng, but there are far more situations where they had to gtfo after a jam missed.
That is a halarious kill though. 
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